Monday, February 05, 2007

Reply to the comments on "Reasons for grave concern listed"

Hi all,
Sorry all for reacting so late. Our internet access has been extremely wobbly since Sunday morning.
This comment is bigger than my average post so far, so it seemed a good idea to make it a post in its own right.

I wish I knew a way to achieve the things you mention in your comment. I agree 100% with you.

Below a set of links that will work for you. I tried to get the films to play with Internet Explorer, but one has to wait until the whole (part of the) film is in.
Better alternative: get yourself the Firefox browser and you'll wonder why you've ever put up with that quirky IE.
I forgot 1984 but had I thought of it I wouldn't have mentioned it as a passing fashion. Big Brother is my personal main concern (here I agree with angela@desmogblog), followed on its heels by nuclear disasters (see who lives relatively close to Chernobyl). These are the only two things that could send me shivering into the bilges, not muslim terrorism, not bird flu, and not climate change, caused by human behaviour or not.
I missed you too, Dale... Sorry, this was not 3 weeks, more like 6.

NB Elena Filatova states that the UN now downplays the risks of nuclear energy (and the number of Chernobyl casualties to a few dozen instead of several thousands).
This seems to hang together with the UN opinion on fossil fuels.

Dan L
Thank you for your message of support, and the mail with the interesting link
My message to you without becoming too specific (I'll loosely quote your great leader Thomas Jefferson): If you sacrifice your liberty for security, you'll end up losing both. As you've seen above, I agree with Angela on that subject. I sincerely hope that's the bigger fish you mean.

Quoting Desmogblog, my comments in brackets:
..."serves as a great example of the fantasy world [bad] the FOS promotes"
..."notorious climate change skeptic [bad] Sallie Baliunas"
..."Hansen et al. that were published in the highly regarded [good] Proceedings of the National Academy of Science"
..."controversial [bad] paper by New Zealand academic Chris de Freitas, published in the Bulletin of Canadian Petroleum Geology at a time when his brother, Talisman Energy geologist Tim de Freitas, was the editor [very bad]"
..."only nine appear in a peer-reviewed journals. And numerous of these [how many out of nine is numerous?] do not support the FOS contention that climate change remains unproven."
..."pieces by the Hockey-stick obsessed [bad] Ross McKitrick, appearing in the right-wing [very very very bad I suppose?] Fraser Institute Forum newsletter"

Maybe I am allowed to paraphrase a quote on Desmogblog :
When you can't stand people agreeing with your opponents in a fight on principle, the next best thing is producing facts about them that you know people won't like. That's what Desmogblog is doing.
Angela, your comment shows the same tendency of discrediting the messenger instead of refuting the message: "the "Friends of Science" are now a discredited [bad](and re-organized and re-named) source, noted for their public relations slant." [bad]

Do you really think the average scientist now gets funding for research that aims to refute the current wave of believers' reports? That's the meaning of my remark about the financial side.

I have very little time for your level of debate, that now introduces 'extreme' climate change.

I prefer people who present their case without attacking messengers. And that is why - again - I recommend viewing the 5 film parts that are brought to us in a calm and - dare I say? - more academically dignified way.
BTW the makers of that film believe in global warming like you and I, and in global cooling too, for that matter. We just seem to disagree about the causes.

Below the 5 parts of the movie Climate Catastrphe Cancelled.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

Windows Media
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5

They're all parts of one movie.


VallyP said...

My concern is even greater, Koosje. As I have already mentioned,I believe that man's pollution of the environment is far reaching and, in many cases, catastrophically damaging, but I do not see the end to the climate change problem being just a question of controlling emissions and practising good environmental habits.

The world's climate is always changing anyway,and we should be looking at preventive measures to protect us from the catstrophes of what is normal and totally natural climate change as well as what we as humanity have inflicted on our poor planet.

Controlling CO2 emissions and greenhouse gases will not be the solution to all our woes, even if it does give us a much improved environment. It is shortsighted of us to think so, and we should be looking seriously at the possibility that the earth is and will be undergoing changes that we cannot control.

Erik-Jan said...

Hi Koos and Val,
You are very able to survive all this, whatever the cause. You did take your measurements living in boats right now ;-)
Still looking for one but I will survive!!

Dale said...

Our reality, in reality, is only within a breadths distance from us...

Do what is right, within that distance!

AhvaRahn said...

Hi Koos,

There are many messengers here. While apple-polishing agreement at best strokes the ego, constructive dissent and argument is the path to truth. I respect your learnéd reasoning, wisdom, and value the arguments brought to the debate. I support this. However, my own judgment, and I try to remove emotion for the reasoning, has me favoring the alternative message to the one you endorse.

With regard to the Exxon mobile funded (not solely) thinktank with close links to the Bush administration, I think we do need to question the integrity of the motives behind the appeal to undermine the IPCC report.

With respect,
Best to you and Val ,

Koos F said...

Thanks for the comment, Paul.

So what do you say about the film?

AhvaRahn said...

The video is, of course, very interesting. When someone presents an opinionated editorial, it is usually convincing. There is a popular internet movie about 911 called Loose Change that has been circulating for about a year, and it is fascinating to watch but I am not about to accept outright what is being said. The DaVinci Code is also quite a page-turner. But what do they represent in the consensus.

I don’t think I saw the whole movie, although I watched all the clips, I think it was choppy with bits missing. I was struck by the dismissal of the ‘hockey stick’ and the piece that modeled the CO2 lagging temperature increases. At the end, the movie was critical of the computer modeling techniques, which made me feel immediately that they invalidated their own counter-argument. They turned the sword that criticized the hockey and CO2 models back unto themselves. Statistics are manipulative. I am not an expert, but I have read pieces here and there (this encourages me to do more) – the Litlle Ice Age is debatable – not that it occurred, but IF it was caused by sun phenomena. I am also unclear as to how the number of scientists here in agreement with FOS, compare to the number that have supported IPCC.

Overall, I remained skeptical of the skeptics, but will have to spend time to research what their thinking represents in the overall scientific arena, whether we call it global warming or global climate change. I am wary of the doomsayers too, but feel it necessary that we make the right choice. The makers of this movie are part of the group receiving the funding from strong players in the energy business; there are close ties to the Bush admin that took such dramatic steps to shun Kyoto and reversse acts protecting the environment without much debate. However, although I am open to new information, I am concerned and I remain swung to the other side.

all my best, Paul.

Oh and as a moment of levity after this, I’d like to quote Woody Allen, whom I love: “More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Lets us hope we have the wisdom to choose correctly.”

Koos F said...

Hi Paul,
Thanks for a very clear explanation of your point of view.
Of course it is my ambition to open people's eyes about how - again - we are led down the garden path.
I'll have to accept that I should not be over optimistic about the results of my attempts.

Thanks for the quote at the end of your comment. Great.
I'm sure you know the expression 'The situation is serious but not hopeless'.
In Austria things are different from the rest of the world, so there the expression is 'The situation is hopeless but not serious'.
Give me Austrian humour any time...

Joost S said...

Ha die Koos,

Even helemaal off-topic, maar ik wist niet hoe ik je anders dit bericht (zie onderaan) kon sturen.
Een bericht dat jij waarschijnlijk zelf al lang kent.

Joost Stegeman

The Who naar Ahoy

LONDEN - The Who komt naar Nederland. Bandleden Pete Townshend en Roger Daltrey lieten donderdag in Londen weten dat ze tijdens hun Europese tournee op 5 juni Nederland aandoen. De voorverkoop voor het concert in Ahoy Rotterdam begint op 17 februari.
Het is voor het eerst in tien jaar dat The Who weer een optreden geeft in Nederland. In de jaren zestig en zeventig scoorde het kwartet uit Londen diverse toptienhits als My Generation, Substitute en Baba O'Riley. Afgelopen jaar verscheen hun laatste album Endless Wire.

Koos F said...

Hoi Joost
Een lichte noot in een zwaar topic.
Bedankt! Dank zij jou en vandaag nog twee anderen weet ik het en kunnen we er op tijd bij zijn. Anders hadden we het misschien niet geweten!
En nou kom ik gelijk eens op je blog kijken.

For the other readers: Joost warns me The Who are coming to Rotterdam in June.

Joost S said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Joost S said...

You're welcome Koos!

Ask Pete to stay at your Luxor during his days in Holland!

My blog is hardly interesting to visit.
Although I like the "woordspeling" Bloghut I came up with.

Hasta luego,

Koos F said...


Pete warns us: if you think you can come visit us in the Airstream caravan, be prepared to have rotten chicken bits thrown at you!

Anne-Marie said...

you can get Rachel to do ITA from the Luxor. I can just see Val cringing as "Oh, hi!" begins another episode. ;)

Koos F said...

Let's keep the bit about the cringing a secret, okay?
Come to think of it, maybe Val will let Rachel use the Vereeniging, nice and cramped, the way Rachel is used to in the Airstream (saves me working on a tidy-up backlog of months).

Natters said...

Hi Koos,

No problem glad you enjoy my videos. It's available as a bootleg. I see they're coming to Holland this year, will you be seeing them?

Koos F said...

Hi Natters,
Must rush, we're in the middle of a ticket hunt for June 5 !!!
Thanks for your visit.

Gary said...

Hello Koos,
I'm putting together a station on IAC called Songs from The Grid, you had shared some of your music with me a while back, and I would love to include it. Let me know if you have MP3's that I can upload. If not, no problem. Cheers mate.

PTfan said...

Hey Koos! Just wanted to drop in and say hi, since I have not been around people's blogs since I got my new job.


: )

Koos F said...

Hi Gary,

This link leads you to the page that I hope you meant.
Feel free to download and publish as many - or as few - as you like on the special IAC station. I'll feel very honoured indeed!
I like the way you go about your music.

Erik-Jan said...

Hi Koos,
This weblog seems to die a sudden death...nothing is happening here any more. Why? Will it change?

PTfan said...

My kids and my dog now have blogs.
Please check them out and leave comments. my kids really want comments.
Now please remember they are young. They have rules they have to follow and these blogs keep their identity anonymous! They are not allowed to say their names or their friends names. The can't say what city or state they live in. The cannot say what school they go to. But please check out their blogs and leave comments, even though you may not have much in common with them.
My daughter

My son

Our Dog

Michel de Zeeuw said...

Hey Pa,

Gistermiddag ging ik naar huis en moest (na al die jaren) aan je denken. Ik ff googlelen en kwam op deze site uit. Hoe is het met je? WIl je graag weer een keertje zien!!


Mies (je kind ;-) )

Mark T said...

Hi Koos,

Thanks for the post on my Blog and apologies for not responding sooner. Looks like you have some heavy things going on with the Global Warming issue, or not as the case maybe.
I have finally put my tune up on Myspace.
I listened to yours on Garys IAC site and liked it. Hope you like mine. You will find it at:

All the best


Koos F said...

Hallo Mies
Kijk even op mijn profile page, daar staat mijn emailadres dacht ik, maar niet dus.
Het is k.fernhout en de rest aan het eind van dit bericht.
Ik heb en paar pogingen gedaan om jou op te sporen maar dat lukte toen niet. Ik kijk ernaar uit om jou weer eens te zien!

Stevie said...

Hi Koos
Climate change. Warming or colding, we are a funny creature aren't we, to not have tried to keep things cleaner from the start? Like inconsiderate and spoiled teenagers we fallolop along the earth doing whatever we please with no regard to tidying after ourselves or thinking of anyone or anything other than messy little selves. And certainly not considering future or peripherial consequences. Whether we really had any hand in it all, (and I think inevitably we did) I am constantly amazed at how much time is spent on blaming the other side of the debate rather than working together to try and find either a solution, which many feel it is too late for, or at least survival tactics for when whichever climate extreme hits us.)
The "greenies" and environmental extremists wail and rail that the government(s) are to blame for all and the government(s) fires back that it is all greenie propoganda and things aren't really that bad, and their particular administration, whichever country they might be in, is doing plenty to save the planet. Bullocks.
I think the real issue is that we all want someone to save the environment, but not at our personal inconvenience or removal of creature comforts. The changes we really need to make are so fundamental, and so deep, I fear we cannot make them on a grand enough scale.
I used to think I knew just where I stood on these issues. THen I got to know a few too many environmentalists, and came to the conclusion that humans are indeed far too arrogant for their own good, societal greed and materialism are, I think, truly going to be our downfall with our refusal to step back and do what needs to be done... of course that can be said of world hunger and poverty as well. If we (and by we I mean the planet in general) spent anywhere near the time, money and energy on living clean, healthy, non-polluting lives, taking care of each other, and doing the same in our economic and industrial lives, as we spend on war, invasions, incursions, corporate takeovers, merging this and that and the other and having to go faster, live larger and hating, we could solve a great many issues.
But of course, we are not tolerant enough to get along in one country let alone an entire planet. It is a very simplistic view, I know.
And, I am am dithering. And not making any truly valid points. But when back in town and near high speed, I will watch the movie bits.
And I entirely agree that attacking the messenger is fruitless.
And I agree with Dale that we must do what we can where we can to make our world a better place, both enviormentally and socially, and try to pass those lessons and instill those habits into our children.
Or it could be true that we are not having any effect at all either way, we are doomed to become extinct like the dinosaurs because the earth is doing as she pleases despite what we do or do not do. She'll be around long after we are gone, after all...

Koos F said...

Thanks for taking the time to write this, Stevie. I'll need to read it again to give it the attention it deserves.
Meanwhile just last Wednesday I noticed that Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth now runs in Dutch cinemas - for free.
An interesting move...

Stevie said...

I haven't watched it yet, but keep seeing it in the video store and wanting to. My oldest son watched it and was very inspired to start asking questions about a great many things. My darling boys... they make every day better for me. I am so blessed.